. >> how often are you talking to general alexander and bob muller at the fbi? is it sort of an ongoing process right now? >> it's ongoing, but the three of us do get together, and -- because we're building here. i mean, this is kind of a new way to look at this new and is evolving threat to national security. and so we have to kind of get out of thinking, thinking analog and think digital. i mean, we have to really move and really think of government institutions and how best they organize themselves. >> we're going the take questions from the audience which you're going to be writing down on index cards, but as we're waiting for those, i want to also get into the domain of cyber war fair, if you want to call it that. i know a lot of people don't like that term, but there was a senior nsa official, deborah plunkett at nsa, gave a talk in which she said something extraordinary, she said we're starting to see nation-state resources and expertise employed in cyber in ways we would characterize as reckless and disruptive behaviors x. what she was alluding to was ot